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2. See Question 1.... which brings us to Question 3
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3. I know some lightweights aren't as "accomplished" as others. However, I usually rank by what I believe a fighter can do In The Ring. For example, Roberto Duran isn't very "accomplished" at 147. Can you REALLY find 10 welterweights who would beat Duran on the night he beat Ray Leonard in 1980?
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I can certainly think of 10 champions and more, since Ortiz, who would beat him. But since the article used Ortiz as it's timeline, he stays.
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Alexis Arguello certainly makes the list.
Hector Camacho also makes the list.
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With Arguello and Camacho, Pacquiao and Marquez must leave. While I actually believe that Pacquiao would beat Ortiz, again, Carlos is the timeline, thus the reason he stays.
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Pacquiao might also beat Mayweather at 135. However, they're close overall so Floyd gets the nod on accomplishment, to briefly contradict myself.
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That brings me to my new list
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Duran
Whitaker
Chavez
Camacho
Arguello
Mosley
Mayweather
Ortiz
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Floyd barely makes this list because he didn't do much at 135. His skill gets him by but he's actually better at 147 than he was at 135. However, he shoots up the list if this were 147. Mayweather loses to each of these champions at 135 and might even lose to Pacquiao.
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To give an idea of where we stand, I'll redo the list at 147.
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Duran
Mayweather
Whitaker
Mosley
Camacho
Arguello
Chavez
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Ortiz would exit the list, replaced by Pacquiao who ranks just behind Whitaker. Mayweather could replace Duran on a given night.
No, I do not agree with those rankings simply because Henry Armstrong and Joe Gans have to be mentioned among a group lightweights that claim to list the best the division ever produced.
My list of the ten greatest lightweights of all time reads like this:
1. Roberto Duran
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Pernell Whitaker
4. Julio Cesar Chavez Sr.
5. Joe Gans
6. Alexis Arguello
7. Hector Camacho Sr.
8. Carlos Ortiz
9. Ike Williams
10. Sam Langford
I rate Beau Jack and Benny Leonard ahead of Shane Mosley (who I am almost certain would have beat Floyd Mayweather at 135), Shane ranks higher at 135 lbs. than either Mayweather or Pacquiao on my all time great lightweight list, but none the five crack the top ten all time great lightweight list in my opinion, nor do big names like Barney Ross, Edwin Rosario, Juan Manuel Marquez, Oscar DeLa Hoya, Joel Casamayor or Acelino Freitas.
1. I don't agree with the list and the ranking.
Could you please give us the link. This list looks suspicious. There were far better lightweight champions since Carlos Ortiz than many of the names on your list. Manny Pacquiao for one fought only ONCE in the lightweight class beating David Diaz who was the weakest of the titlists at the time. How could he be rated higher than Marquez who fought more championship bouts against the likes of Joel Casamayor, Michael Katsidis and Juan Diaz.
2. Plenty. Where's the likes of the more accomplished champions Hector Camacho, Alexis Arguello Boom Boom Mancini Edwin Rosario, Jose Luis Ramirez?
3. I will defintely strikeout Pacquiao from the list as well as Mayweather, Mosley and Marquez whose reigns and accomplishments paled in comparison to the others in the list. I would replace.the four with Arguello, Camacho Mancini and Ramirez.
My list and ranking will thus be:
1. Roberto Duran
2. Julio Cesar Chavez
3. Alexis Arguello
4. Pernell Whitaker
5. Carlos Ortiz
6. Hector Camacho
7. Boom Boom Mancini
8. Jose :Luis Ramirez
Floyd Mayweather only had 4 pro fights in lightweight.
The first was a robery against Castillo, where Castillo outlanded Mayweather in every single category.
The second fight was the rematch, a close bout with Castillo where Mayweather landed more jabs but Castillo landed more powershots.
The third was a decision against Sosa....a nobody. And his fourth fight at lightweight was a tko of NDou, another nobody.
If that qualifies you to being a top 10 lightweight then that division is trash.
But seriously; Chavez went 90-0, built his career in lightweight and they rank Floyd above Chavez in that division?
SMH
Roberto Duran is Number 1 without a doubt. The one person missing on everyones list is Ike Williams. He was champion from 1945-51. He was so good he outgrew his competition and had to move up to welterweight. He was hard puncher tall for the weight 5 foot 9 and a great boxer. A very underrated champ who I would put top 5 of all time.
I read that article. It just goes to show that "expert" is a word that is used loosely in boxing. I'd love to talk to the "expert" who listed Carlos Ortiz at number one, even above Duran.
No offense but he HAD to be Puerto Rican. Nothing personal but they are the most disillusion boxing fans.
My dad employs a lot of blacks and PRs. Blacks aren't very realist either but PRs are the worst. We talk boxing a lot and I can't believe the number of Puerto Ricans who believe that Miguel Cotto would beat guys like Hagler, Monzon and Robinson.
Ortiz? Please. He doesn't even belong on that list. He was good but not that good.
Joe Gans is Top 3!!!
Ring Magazine once listed the following eight modern lightweight champions and ranked them according to a panel of experts.
After examining each champion, they were ranked in the following order.
Roberto Duran
Pernell Whitaker
Floyd Mayweather
Julio Cesar Chavez
Shane Mosley
Carlos Ortiz
Manny Pacquiao
Juan Manuel Marquez
1. Do you agree with these rankings?
2. Is there another lightweight, since Ortiz, who should be on this list?
3. If so, Who should this lightweight replace?
