Joe Frazier only lost to 2 fighters in his career Muhammad Ali and George Foreman. He was determination and a force to be reckoned with. He fought in the greatest era of the heavyweight division. He also had one of the greatest left hooks in boxing history. He would demolish any heavyweight today. He is not overrated. The other great fighters he beat were Jerry Quarry, Oscar Bonavena, Jimmy Ellis and Bob Foster. That being said I would not say he is top 5. I would put him bottom top 10.
It's his identification with Muhammad Ali. specifically for being the first fighter to beat the GOAT in his prime and engaging him in two more grueling fights especially the Thrilla in Manila which is considered as the greatest in heavyweight boxing history.
Outside of those, I tend to agree that he was a bit overrated. He was lucky to earn the decision against Oscar Bonavena and most of the fighters he met and beat were either remnants from the early Clay years ( like George Chuvalo, Eddie Machen, Doug Jones and George Johnson ) or contemporaries below his class ( Jimmy Ellis, Jerry Quarry, Manuel Ramos, Buster Mathis, Bob Foster, Joe Bugner ).
Outside of Ali, the only great heavyweight fighter he met was George Foreman and he lost both fights to Big George by KO.
He won't fight Ken Norton because they are buddies.
Ali was rusty? Ali's first fight back he stopped Quarry in the third round; faster than the first time they fought.
Joe's style and endless stamina beat Ali, period. If Joe did not get demolished by Foreman twice, I believe he would have pulled out the Thrilla in Manila. Joe was not a defensive genius and he took punishment, but no more than Joe Louis who was often knocked down and almost beaten by a light heavyweight.
Ali deserves to be rated higher than Frazier, but not by that much, in my opinion. In part, Alis is rated due to his social significance, which Frazier did not possess.
PS I also rate Holmes above Ali. I believe he was as good a boxer and had more pop in both hands.
PSS I should note that Frazier's second fight with Foreman was after Manila. But it is clear that Joe had absorbed too much punishment in his career, and still came close to beating Ali again.
Joe Frazier had more title defenses as ndisputed heavyweight champion than Rocky Marciano or Jack Dempsey.
He was the first man to defeat Muhammad Ali and he only ever lost to the great Ali & George Foreman.
Joe Frazier is not the greatest ever but he is an all time great
I don't think so at all. His list of title defenses is hugely impressive and he only ever lost to two of the greatest heavyweights of all time, Ali and Foreman. And he beat Ali the first time. Its amazing when you consider how limited he was. He was small, not good defensively, and his left hook was his only big weapon and he was even blind in his left eye for most of his career. And he STILL had enough to smack ali around in 1971.
Not at all. Beating Ali was no small feat. Then or later on. Smoking Joe would lay on your shoulder and throw huge uppercuts and body punches. He could do damage to any fighter.
I think Mike Tyson got some of his bobbing and weaving lessons from Smoking Joe. To get inside taller opponents.
I've heard people even call him an ATG. Now don't get it twisted, I respect him big time. He fought in a legendary era put up with Ali's crap, but he did not do anything so impressive. He beat a rusty Ali who came back from a 3 year lay off, that still highly respectable in it's own right but Ali still avenged it twice later. How many greats did he beat or dominate?
People will get emotional and cry that I'm a troll because of this nostalgia that people seem to suffer from, especially with sports because he fought the likes of Ali and Foreman. Frazier was a great fighter in his time, but he wasn't the best, and certainly not of all time.
Stay true, lay off the nostalgic, emotional crap and provide a thought out logical answer.
Peace.
